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標題: [Larva/Pupa] Limacodidae - Spatulifimbria spp.
moviesorientate
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發表於 2012-5-23 22:03  資料 短消息 
Limacodidae - Spatulifimbria spp.



dated 23 May
located Chai Wan HK Island east

thanks in advance (and sorry for pic quality)





[ Last edited by  hkmoths at 2012-6-9 12:15 ]
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發表於 2012-5-23 23:37  資料 文集 短消息 

本帖最近評分記錄
moviesorientate   2012-5-23 23:46  種子  +5   讚 Like !!
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回覆 #2 kw_lam 的帖子

thanks so much.
-----------

the pictures of Darna furva on the internet seem to show a vastly different larva from the one on ccs-hk's site, and the one in my posted photos though...

e.g. http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/ameli ... &l=f&fid=16
and
http://www.hkwildlife.net/viewth ... light=Darna%2Bfurva

[ 本帖最後由 moviesorientate 於 2012-5-23 23:58 編輯 ]
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發表於 2012-5-24 20:52  資料 短消息 
Darna furva instars at different stages at this Taiwanese site...
http://gaga.biodiv.tw/9702bx/770.htm

they really don't look much like the one in my pictures... is it possible there's been a mix-up?
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nadia
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發表於 2012-6-8 22:50  資料 文集 短消息 
回覆 #4 moviesorientate 的帖子

The identification provided in this link is incorrect.  The larva does not belong to the adult month.

http://ccs-hk.org/DM/butterfly/Limacodid/Darna-furva.html

What is showing in your picture is a larva of a Limacodidae moth Spatulifimbria castaneiceps.

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moviesorientate   2012-6-8 23:03  種子  +10   讚 Like !!
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回覆 #5 nadia 的帖子

thanks so much! I thought there might have been some mix-up

thanks for the ID
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發表於 2012-6-8 23:22  資料 短消息 
回覆 #5 nadia 的帖子

Nadia: question again, I just looked up some online pictures of a larva of a Spatulifimbria castaneiceps opprimata Hering
e.g. http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/ameli ... &l=f&fid=16

it says there that the larva is camouflaged as bird droppings... but the one in my picture was bright red and yellow

so I'm still not quite certain about this... could you possibly verify this ID?

-
btw. This might be relevant: I found another larva just last week, that I thought could be a later instar of the one in my picture at #1
(didn't pick it up though because it was on a bannister and I had no idea what plant it actually feeds on and I know too little about moth larvae to even try and guess at the food plant)

this one was I think about 1.5 cm long.
pictures below:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5b0xatjZf1r40zh5o1_1280. jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5b0xatjZf1r40zh5o2_1280. jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5b0xatjZf1r40zh5o3_1280. jpg

[ 本帖最後由 moviesorientate 於 2012-6-9 01:51 編輯 ]
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發表於 2012-6-9 01:17  資料 主頁 短消息 
Reply #7 moviesorientate's post

The images in #7 above are not Limacodidae, but Zygaenidae, namely,
Z. Chalcosiinae Trypanophora semihyalina argyrospila.  For more info and LFP, see http://www.ccs-hk.org/DM/butterfly/Zygaenid/Trypanophora.html

[ Last edited by  dlmohn at 2012-6-9 01:34 ]
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發表於 2012-6-9 01:32  資料 主頁 短消息 
Reply #5 nadia's post

I'm not quite sure what you mean when you wrote "the larva does not belong with the adult moth".  The moth DID come out of the imaged cocoon, which in turn WAS produced by the imaged larva, so...  I DO apologize for the terrible condition of the imago; it was very difficult to set.  It's condition may have mislead my ID informant...who shall remain nameless.

BTW Nadia, thanks for the no-heads-up on the ID fubar!
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回覆 #8 dlmohn 的帖子

thanks, I think I'm gonna take down the pictures on that post to avoid misleading XD but thanks very much for the ID
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回覆 #9 dlmohn 的帖子

but David, why are these pictures of Darna furva larvae on these Taiwanese sites and on hkwildlife.net forum so different from the images on your site?
1. http://www.hkwildlife.net/viewth ... light=Darna%2Bfurva
2. http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/ameli ... &l=f&fid=16
3. http://gaga.biodiv.tw/9702bx/770.htm
VS
http://ccs-hk.org/DM/butterfly/Limacodid/Darna-furva.html

I'm sorry about how rude I must be sounding but some of these Taiwanese blogs provide images of the larva at numerous different instar stages, and I can't see the instars at any stage as identical to the D. furva larva shown on your site... the colouring and the shape seems to me to be completely different
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發表於 2012-6-9 07:49  資料 文集 短消息 
回覆 #9 dlmohn 的帖子

My comment means no offence.   It is based on my rearing result which is shown here.



and by making reference to the following website.
http://www.nbaii.res.in/Pestsofc ... a-castaneiceps.html

One of us might have get thing mixed up.   If the mistake is mine, I apologize in advance.

If both of our observation and recordings are correct, some very interesting phenonmenon is found here.

[ 本帖最後由 nadia 於 2012-6-9 07:51 編輯 ]
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發表於 2012-6-9 08:07  資料 文集 短消息 
回覆 #11 moviesorientate 的帖子

1. Can't see your picture.
2. Spatulifimbria castaneiceps opprimata Hering might have been now raised to a species level as Spatulifimbria opprimata because it is a species clearly distinct from Spatulifimbria castaneiceps.   Please see the composited pictures for easy comparison.



[ 本帖最後由 nadia 於 2012-6-9 08:13 編輯 ]
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發表於 2012-6-9 11:10  資料 短消息 
回覆 #13 nadia 的帖子

1. the pictures at #7 have been IDed by David to be Zygaenidae, Chalcosiinae, Trypanophora semihyalina argyrospila (Walker, 1864).
Sorry for the mix-up, that's purely my ignorance, I took down the pictures to avoid further confusion XD but the adapted link addresses are still there

-

2. thanks for these pictures, amazing clarity. So #12 shows Spatulifimbria castaneiceps Hampson and #13 shows what should now be treated as Spatulifimbria opprimata, is that correct?...
most of the moth enthusiast blogs I saw only show the larvae of the latter, under the name of S. castaneiceps opprimata Hering

-

I guess, um, if we want to solve this the peaceful way, now might be a good time for someone to repeat the experiment, rear a batch of these caterpillars from scratch and see what happens?.... so I'll be on the lookout for these larvae
on that occasion I only saw one individual though on a bannister.

[ 本帖最後由 moviesorientate 於 2012-6-9 11:17 編輯 ]
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發表於 2012-6-9 12:13  資料 文集 短消息 
need to get Solovyev to see both sets of pictures. David's photos are typical Limacodidae, so mK material is of a 3rd potentially intermediate species between S. casteineceps (Sri Lanka) and S. opprimata (Taiwan).
  Full rearing (and complete documentation) of all clades clearly is going to be most helpful here, as will morphological studies of larvae, pupae and adults, and also DNA analysis.

cheers,
Roger.




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發表於 2012-6-9 23:29  資料 主頁 短消息 


QUOTE:
Originally posted by moviesorientate at 2012-6-9 01:51 AM
but David, why are these pictures of Darna furva larvae on these Taiwanese sites and on hkwildlife.net forum so different from the images on your site?
1. http://www.hkwildlife.net/viewthread.php?tid= ...

Nah, not rude!  I think you may have misunderstood me.  I'm quite willing to concede that my page is mislabeled as D.furva.  I was just affirming that the moth, pupa and larva on the page ARE related, regardless of which ID is assigned.  I'd also like to observe here, that, looking somewhat casually at the larva on my page and comparing it with the images in your #1 and #12 makes me wonder if they might not be of different species, ie they look to me as having somewhat different morphologies.  However, the #12 image IS quite similar to the one on my page, the coloring is diff, though that might be due just to lighting; markings are certainly similar, but  I don't really remember so much red showing as in #1. What do you think?

[ Last edited by  dlmohn at 2012-6-9 23:40 ]
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發表於 2012-6-11 17:56  資料 短消息 
回覆 #16 dlmohn 的帖子

thanks, looking at #12 I completely agree with your ID of Trypanophora semihyalina argyrospila. These were taken on another occasion and it was my mistake confusing them with the larva in #1.

As for the extra red, it could be because I altered the lighting/contrast a little bit so that the hairs show up more clearly just a little bit really....
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